(Trouble) Shoot Your Gun: How to Mitigate and Isolate Common Issues.

Author clearing a malfunction caused by cheap steel case ammo in a drum mag, using an FRT.

There's nothing more frustrating than excitedly heading out to the range with your brand new gun/optic/suppressor/accessory and promptly having it fail. This experience is not only rage-inducing, but also can be pretty expensive if you keep throwing money at a problem that refuses to go away. So how do you prevent that? Today we're going to go through a checklist that can prevent or mitigate the majority of issues and save you guys time, effort, money, and frustration. I've given out a good amount of advice to people on the internet (and IRL) on taking these steps, so I thought an article would be helpful.

Note that this isn't designed to be a "how to" article for fixing every single issue you could possibly encounter (that would be impossible, obviously); but rather how to avoid them in the first place and narrow down what the issue(s) could be when they happen. For actual fix-it videos, Rumble and YouTube are obviously great resources. This checklist will focus on isolating variables and how to proceed from there.

First things first: having some basic experience can go a long ways here. You don't have to be a super Delta SEAL Recon Sniper or Ian Mccollum to troubleshoot most problems, but if you're a first time gun owner it may be helpful to tap a more experienced friend or family member for help if at all possible. As I just mentioned, you want to isolate variables, not your skills. All this to say, if your new rifle isn't shooting well but you've never shot a rifle before, it would be best to let someone else more skilled than you shoot it before you proceed. Even if you are experienced, though, letting another experienced buddy try out your setup can still be helpful. It's never bad to have a fresh set of eyes on a problem.

Secondly, buy quality stuff, guys. Note that I said "quality", not "expensive". For example, you can get into a quality red dot (like the Sig Romeo 5 Gen 2) for around $150. Don't buy a $40 red dot on Amazon and then spend $140 on ammo trying to figure out why you can't hit the broad side of a barn! That $40 red dot could work, and it also could be DOA. Pretty easy to figure out that your red dot is the issue if it won't even turn on, though.

In general, I think you can look at it this way: Experienced Shooter + Cheap Stuff = Workable (but not ideal). An Experienced Shooter can probably separate the chaff from the wheat fairly quickly and figure out if the cheap red dot is what's causing his issues. New Shooter + Quality Stuff = Workable. While even Quality Stuff can fail, the chances are reduced considerably--and having a known quantity should help a New Shooter figure out quickly if the problem is with him or the gear. And of course, Experience Shooter + Quality Stuff = Highest Chance of Success.  If an Experienced Shooter is having issues with Quality Stuff, then he either has a weak link in the chain (perhaps the optic mount was cheap), forgot to double check all of his components, or he has an actual lemon that needs to be returned/exchanged.

Break-In can also be very important before trying to fully diagnose issues. Different guns will require different break-in periods (if any), but shooting a few hundred rounds of decent quality ammo can often make a difference. Reliability and accuracy will generally improve after a break-in period, which allows the various parts and components to wear down any high spots, burrs, excess coatings, etc from the repeated cycling. Of course, hand cycling a firearm (racking a slide, running the bolt, pulling the charging handle, dry firing, manipulating the safety, etc) is a free way to speed up the break in process at the cost of your time. If you can't complete the break-in because the firearm won't function much or at all, there's probably something seriously wrong and you should just send it back to the manufacturer if at all possible.

We'll also make the assumption that your firearm is cleaned, lubed, and well maintained. While there's different philosophies and theories on how often to clean (and where the sweet spot is for accuracy), there's no doubt that a gun's accuracy and reliability will eventually degrade if it isn't cleaned.  Even if the gun is brand new, the chemicals used in manufacturing or oils used for storage can occasionally cause accuracy/reliability issues; they also aren't designed to be lube for actual shooting! Cleaning the rifle is an easy variable to knock off the checklist and should definitely be one of the first steps for accuracy or reliability issues. 

Finally, I believe that keeping a round count and maintenance log on your guns is a good idea. Your gun will lose reliability as certain parts reach the end of their lifecycles or break, and your accuracy will degrade as your barrel eventually gets shot out. Look up the maintenance intervals and projected parts longevities for your particular firearm so you can plan ahead; don't be surprised if your super accurate AR loses accuracy after 20,000 rounds! 

So, now that that's out of the way, we'll assume for the rest of the article that either you or an Experienced Shooter is going to be troubleshooting here, using a clean/lubed firearm that's been broken in. The vast majority of firearms related issues can be broken into two broad categories: Accuracy Issues, and Reliability Issues. Both can be extremely frustrating and occasionally they'll even join forces! We'll start with how to tackle Accuracy Issues. I'm going to be talking primarily about rifles here, but these concepts absolutely apply to pistols, PCCs, and shotguns, too.

RELIABILITY ISSUES

Shoot enough guns and you'll probably experience the frustration of hearing "click" instead of "bang". While any firearm can experience a malfunction for any number of reasons, repeated malfunctions likely indicate a problem. Let's start by isolating some variables and make sure that you (the shooter) aren't a factor by checking the setup.

If you're shooting a handgun, make sure you have a firm grip and aren't "limp-wristing" the pistol. For a rifle, make sure that you have solid contact between your shoulder and the stock and are applying some forward pressure with your shoulder. Also make sure that you're not putting pressure on the magazine, mag release, or slide release/charging handle/cocking handle when shooting. With our setup out of the way, let's move on.

Time to check the gun! First things first, clean that bad boy as mentioned in the beginning. While you're cleaning your gun, you may as well inspect it. We won't get into full maintenance and inspection procedures here for the sake of brevity, but checking over all of your components is a good idea. For pistols, check the barrel, recoil spring assembly, extractor, ejector, and firing mechanism. Also make sure that you reassemble it correctly! If you don't know what you're looking at (or what everything should look like), there's plenty of great videos out there online.

For ARs, focus on the bolt carrier, bolt, barrel, gas block, muzzle device, trigger/safety, and your rail mounting hardware (barrel nut and rail mounting bolts/screws). Unfortunately it's not uncommon for components to either work loose or even come from the factory loose. I had a PSA gas block which was misaligned (which can cover part of the gas port, undergassing the rifle), as well as a rail bolt or two on my Geissele Super Duty which walked loose very quickly after purchase. Everything should be torqued to spec and loctited if necessary. I like to use witness marks using a Sharpie or paint pen so I can see that all my bolts/screws are still snug.

Witness marks are especially helpful with heavier-recoiling firearms like shotguns and AR-10s.

Just like in the accuracy department, quality (or at least decent) ammunition can play a large part in reliability.  Thanks to different import bans, crappy steel case ammunition is less common today than it used to be, but there's still plenty of weak, inconsistent, or otherwise garbage ammo out there. One of the big culprits is "reman[ufactured]" ammo, like Freedom Munitions, 2A Warehouse, etc. Reman ammo is loaded with used/once fired brass and is typically cheaper than regular ammo. While I won't claim that all reman ammo is bad by any means, there's enough horror stories out there of people having everything from malfunctions caused by weak ammo up to and including blowing their guns up with squib rounds or a double charged round. I watched a buddy "blow up" his Glock at a shooting competition from what was likely a double charged round of reman ammo.

Oops

From personal experience I also had an issue right when I bought that Geissele Super Duty where, shooting Wolf steel case in winter, I was having reliability issues; because the gas port was designed around hotter duty-style ammo, not the cheap/weak steal case. It should be noted that cold weather is going to be harsher on all firearms, reliability wise, so testing everything in warmer weather isn't a bad idea. All this to say that if you are using ammo that's known to be suspect or weak (and a simple Google search should bring up results pretty quickly if it is),  switching ammo types should probably be your first step.

Hand-in-hand with good ammo goes good magazines. While this isn't as much of an issue nowadays for ARs with the proliferation of cheap Magpul mags, it can definitely be an issue when using aftermarket mags for handguns. Pro-mag is pretty infamous for making crappy magazines, and I've also had issues with ETS mags. In the MP5 world, many of the "clone" magazines are known to be potential problems, so buying a quality (but expensive) HK mag is often suggested. In general, if you're not using a name-brand magazine, it's worth picking one up when having reliability issues.

Even if you're using quality ammo, make sure that your firearm is designed for it! This applies mostly to pistols, but certain (especially older) handguns may not cycle different grain weights of bullets very well, and may also have issues with hollow points. Adding compensators/brakes/ports to pistols can also change how they operate and may require dropping the recoil spring weight for lighter loads like 115gr. Checking the owner's manual and looking around online is a good idea if you're having issues. 

On the rifle side of things, .300blk and other subsonic cartridges are often a big culprit. Many rifles will not run subsonic ammo while unsuppressed, or with a very low backpressure suppressor. That's not a problem with the rifle or ammo, it's simply a case of what that specific setup was designed for. There's little to no point in running subsonic rifle calibers without a suppressor, so stick to supers if you're having issues unsuppressed.

Speaking of suppressors, that's another factor that can hamper reliability in both rifles and pistols. With pistols, make sure you're running a booster/Nielson device and be prepared to swap recoil spring weights. Be advised too that many pistols (again, especially older ones) were never designed with suppression in mind and simply may not want to run suppressed at all. Better to bite the bullet and get a pistol for dedicated suppressed use rather than spend a bunch of time and money trying to force a finicky pistol to run reliably suppressed.

Modern rifles are much more tolerant of suppressors, but that doesn't mean that they come ready to run reliably suppressed from the factory. Unless it's sold with an adjustable gas block or some other factory tuning option (like a reduced size gas port), pretty much every stock AR on the market will not function optimally with anything other than a very low backpressure suppressor. That doesn't mean that they won't be reliable, but they'll be overgassed for sure and will probably yeet your spent brass into the next county.

I've got a full video in the works on tuning the AR for optimal suppressed usage, but assuming you have a stock AR, simply bumping up the buffer weight is probably the simplest thing you can do. It isn't the ideal fix for a full backpressure traditional suppressor, but it will definitely help. Adding an adjustable gas block as noted (or an adjustable BCG) is going to help you dial your rifle in much better. A good idea if you're having reliability issues is to take some slow-mo closeup footage of your weapon firing. You may be able to spot the issue, or you can always post it on forums and see if anyone else with more knowledge/experience can help.

Suppressors will also cause your firearm to become dirty much, much quicker. When it comes to AR rifles, I found that if I was using a light oil like Hoppes #9 it would burn off within just a mag or two. Now the rifle is both dirty and dry (that's what she said), and I found myself having issues where the BCG would get so caked in carbon that bolt release wouldn't reliably drop the bolt. I'd have to slingshot the charging handle to get the rifle back up and running after a reload. Switching to a heavier oil like motor oil keeps the BCG wet much longer. That combined with a lower backpressure suppressor and/or an AGB will keep your rifle running for a long time, but it will need to be cleaned (or at least lubed) more often than an unsuppressed rifle.

FRT usage is becoming increasingly common and can definitely reduce reliability. Troubleshooting an FRT is beyond the scope of this article, but using a minimum H2 buffer should be one of the first things you try to reduce the chance of bolt bounce. The geometry of your lower (namely high shelf vs low shelf) can cause certain FRT designs to bind up and not run correctly, so checking that is also a good idea. You should be able to hand cycle the weapon and feel the trigger reset and hammer fall again after pulling the trigger and racking the charging handle. These systems can sometimes require some extra lube and break-in, too.

Finally, let's cover "upgrades" to your gun. With pistols, this unfortunately can include mounting an optic! Depending on what the optic cut looks like, it's not uncommon for an optic screw that's too long to bind on the extractor of a pistol, causing malfunctions. I had this exact problem with a P80 Glock clone that simply required me to use a shorter optic screw on the right side of the pistol. As we mentioned earlier, adding a suppressor/comp/port will likely necessitate a change in recoil springs. Certain triggers can also reduce reliability or even safety; there's a recent video floating around of a guy having an accidental discharge without pulling the aftermarket trigger of his Glock. The video shows that his finger is off the trigger and it appears that inserting a new magazine during a reload was enough to drop the striker and fire a round.

Regardless of whether we're talking pistol or rifle, if you have reliability issues after installing a new part(s), your first move should be to switch back to stock/milspec parts. If that fixes your problem, you now know that either your new part is faulty or that you installed it incorrectly. I'm about as impatient as they come, but if you're planning to install a bunch of upgrades, it's not a bad idea to do them one at a time and check function before adding another. I recently helped a buddy of mine reinstall his trigger when, after doing some dryfire, he found that his AR's trigger wasn't reseting. He had swapped triggers and didn't correctly reinstall the trigger and hammer springs, so it wasn't running right.

ACCURACY ISSUES

Ever take a shot with a brand new gun and/or optic setup and walk down range, only to find that you're not on paper, and have no idea where the round went? Pretty frustrating! When it comes to isolating accuracy variables, it's obviously best to use a known quantity if at all possible--either use a rifle that's known to be accurate to test an optic's accuracy, or an optic that you know to be quality and trouble free to test a rifle's accuracy. Testing an unknown optic and unknown rifle at the same time is definitely not ideal, as it may be very difficult to pin down which is causing issues.

A quick note on accuracy--be realistic with your expectations! Despite what people on the internet or that guy at the range claims, shooting "one hole groups" is pretty rare (and you need at least 5-10rds per group to have an idea of accuracy, not 3). A bolt action rifle that can shoot 5 or more rounds into 1" or less is accurate, and more than acceptable for the vast majority of shooters. A bolt gun that can shoot 5 or more rounds into 1/2" or less is very accurate, and will almost certainly command a significant cost. Can you get lucky with a Ruger American rifle or Savage Axis? Sure, but don't count on it.

ARs and other semi autos are almost always going to be less accurate than an equivalently priced bolt action (exactly why is a topic for another day). In my book, an AR that can put 5+ shots into 1.5" or less is accurate, and under 1" is very accurate. Legit 1/2" 5+ shot group ARs are rarer than hen's teeth! All this to say: manage your expectations when it comes to accuracy, and don't get mad if your basic $500 PSA AR isn't shooting dimes.

Various 5rd groups from my Geissele SD. 0.85" is excellent!

Now to start, we gotta use quality ammo for good accuracy in almost every case, gentlemen. Maybe you'll get lucky and your rifle will shoot PMC Bronze into 1" groups, but that would be the exception, not the rule. If you're looking for the utmost accuracy you can get from your rifle, buy at least a few different loadings of quality ammo to try--each rifle will have loads and bullet weights that it "likes" more than others. For 5.56/.223, precision ammo will usually be in the 68-77gr range and will often be labeled as "match" ammo. Black Hills, Federal Gold Medal Match, and Hornady Match are usually solid options, to give a few examples.

If you don't care about absolute accuracy (say, using a red dot on an SBR), then trying a few brands of M193/generic plinking ammo is a good way to isolate this variable if you're having accuracy issues. M193 should be in the 1.5" (very good) to 4"ish (edge of acceptable) range. If multiple brands of M193 are shooting 5"+, then your ammo selection is probably not your problem. If Wolf or Tula steel case is shooting 6" but everything else is within the acceptable range, I wouldn't worry about it. If your setup won't shoot any precision ammo under 2", and any M193 or equivalent under 5", ammo is not your problem.

Next, let's make sure our shooting setup is good. This is probably the easiest variable to isolate. For shooting accurately you want to make sure that you're shooting from a stable position without any kind of interference. This means shooting from a front rest, bag, or bipod, and ideally using some kind of rear bag or rest as well. Don't let your exposed barrel touch anything--one of the big reasons that modern free float handguards are so handy! Also ensure that nothing is contacting your gas block or barrel--MLok screws are a big culprit for this and it can absolutely affect your accuracy. Be advised that if shooting from a bipod, loading it (ie putting significant forward pressure on it) can cause groups to shift and/or expand. If you're using a scope with exposed turrets, make sure you're at 0 and not dialed up from the last time you were shooting out to distance (ask me how I know)!

When shooting for absolute accuracy, such as when I'm reviewing a rifle, I like to use at least 8x magnification, and ideally higher. Some of this will depend on how good your eyesight is, but I've never met someone who can shoot a tighter group with iron sights than with a quality magnified optic. It goes without saying that more magnification allows you to have a finer point of aim, which obviously helps to shoot tighter groups. I know personally that I can shoot around 1" groups with an 8x optic at 100yds (I can shoot sub MOA with 15x+), but with irons or a red dot the best I can manage is maybe 1/2-1" at 50yds.

Once all those variables have been addressed, we'll isolate the optic setup, then the rifle. For the optic, we'll start by making sure that it's properly mounted in a quality mount. An optic that is loose and shifting/slipping in the rings, or a mount that isn't properly torqued to the rifle will display some pretty apparent accuracy issues and it will be almost impossible to shoot tight groups. A possible indicator of this is shooting groups where one or more rounds are in a group together, and then several more rounds are together further away--caused by the optic shifting and then resettling--almost as if you shot two groups.  

Getting some kind of torque-limiting driver/bit (I use Fix-It Sticks, personally) is a good idea for any shooter. It takes all the guess work out of mounting optics. In your optic and/or mount manual you should see torque values for both the mount to the rifle, and the scope/dot to the mount--follow them! If you still have issues with the optic coming loose, consider using some loctite on your mount or rings' screws/bolts. Just be advised that "wet torque" with loctite requires less force than "dry torque" without, so check for manufacturer recommendations. Again, using witness marks here is a good idea.

For a scope that's in rings (either two separate rings or a single scope mount) you need to be sure that it's leveled as well. While anything besides extreme cant shouldn't be a huge deal at 100yds, it will begin to make a difference as you stretch the distances out. There are a number of different ways to level a scope, but my preferred way is to use the Arisaka Leveling Kit if at all possible--makes it super quick and easy.

Alright, you have good ammo, a good shooting setup, a quality optic and mount that is properly torqued, but you still can't hit anything. Again, clean and inspect your rifle. For accuracy-specific issues, focus on the BCG, barrel/barrel nut, muzzle device, and rail mounting bolts. Everything should be torqued to spec and loctited if necessary. If your rifle is clean and the components are in good shape, borrow or buy a bore scope to check your barrel for any burrs, excessive wear, lead/copper/carbon buildup, or fire cracking. If there's no issues there, it might be time to swap barrels if you're not happy with your accuracy--you can only expect so much from a budget barrel.

CONCLUSION

The purpose of this article was not to run down and give directions on how to correct any firearm issue you may encounter. Rather, the goal here is to give you some concepts and procedures for how to isolate the issue and hopefully solve it yourself, or at least give a professional more information to go on when you bring it in for repair. As you do more shooting, you'll start to develop a much better idea of what's going on with your firearms and eventually you'll be able to diagnose things without having to run down the full list (hopefully). When problems arise, slow down and isolate, and you'll be just fine.

Firearms Troubleshooting Checklist

• Gun is cleaned/lubed, in good condition, and broken in. 
• Perform a basic inspection to make sure everything is as it should be, ie gas block isn't loose.
• Ammo and mags are quality (and ideally proven).
• Optic and mount aren't cheap Chinese junk and are properly installed/torqued/witnessed marked.
• The shooting setup is solid, and accuracy expectations are realistic.
• Only one upgrade/aftermarket component is being added at a time.
• If an upgraded/accessorized gun doesn't run, will it after switching back to factory/milspec?
• Let another experienced shooter try your setup and see if they have the same problems.
• Contact manufacturer or talk to a gunsmith.

The Sweet Spot in Thermal Optics?

 

Most of the guys here (and probably the girls, too) will be familiar with the "Crazy/Hot" Matrix. You know, the scale by which the acceptable level of crazy in a female must correlate with how hot she is.  The hotter she is, the crazier she's allowed to be, and vice versa. The "goal" is to find that girl in the sweet spot, ie really hot and not very crazy.

Pic unrelated

Well, there's a similar scale with thermal optics (and most products, really) called the price/performance ratio. As price increases, so too does performance. When you're trying to get the most bang for your buck, the goal is to find the sweet spot on that scale, too. I like to compare thermal optics to gaming consoles, as I think it's a useful analogy for guys under 50. The little-used (today) 144 sensor is the Playstation 1, the 256 PS2, the 380 PS3, the 640 PS4, and the newer 1280s are the PS5. If money is no object, by all means go ahead and spend $5000-10,000 on a 1280—the performance will be outstanding. For those of us without live-in butlers, though, spending that kind of money on a thermal optic is difficult or impossible. I believe that for most people, the 380-class of thermal optics is where the sweet spot is, as you can get a very usable optic in the $1000-1500 ballpark.

Here, we'll discuss the Goyojo GRL335 and see if it, as a 384 sensor thermal, qualifies. I previously reviewed their GRS225RF, a good range-finding 256 option, and they were kind enough to send this one out as well. First things first, we'll look at the outside, and as you can see, it looks a bit like a thermal ACOG. It mounts via a standard style QD lever and comes with a cantilever extension. I haven't tried this extension (I'm able to get a good sight picture with the standard mount thanks to using it on a build with the LAW ARIC), but it definitely does not strike me as the most solid way to mount an optic. As for the controls, you have 4 buttons on top to use. It should be noted that the power button is also used to activate the recording feature, which is slightly annoying, but in practice hasn't caused me any issues. The battery (18650) is mounted transversely and must be removed for charging. Battery life has been good, and I've been able to hunt 2 or 3 nights on one battery.

Durability has also been good, and I've had no issues either in the rain or cold weather. The GRL335 comes with a camera-lens style cover, which is difficult to remove with gloves on, but is otherwise fine. The other feature that can be difficult to use with gloves is the focus ring, which is set inside of the front objective shroud, and not an external ring like most other thermals I've used. The rear focus (for how the screen appears to your eyes) is a traditional ring, though.

Moving inside, the GRL335 is a 384 resolution thermal sensor with a 35mm objective lens and a 4x base magnification. Performance is very solid, and a noticeable step up from the GRS225RF. It was certainly easier to ID animals with, and also able to detect them further. It has a standard set of thermal scope features, like multiple profiles, multiple reticles, multiple color palettes, etc. Like the 225RF though, it does have a few technological glitches. First, if you watch my video review, you'll see that the reticle and reticle position in the recorded video files does not match what I'm actually seeing through the optic. Not a big deal if you don't plan to share your video with anyone, but worth pointing out. Secondly, the screen also does not recenter after you zero the optic, so your reticle is not in the center of the screen. Again, not a big deal, but definitely annoying. I'm told that an updated version of the GRL335 fixes these two issues, as well as adds audio recording, but I have not used it.

Reticle slightly off center of screen.

Also similar to the GRS225RF,  I disabled the Recoil Activated Video feature because I found that it would kick on while I was walking around, draining battery and SD card space. It would definitely be nice if this could be corrected, as there was at least one critter I shot where I forgot to manually activate the recording in the heat of the moment. Video is recorded and transferred via a Micro SD card, which I like, but there is not an app where you can access your videos, just a live stream of what the optic is looking at.

At its current $950 sale price, I think the GRL335 is a good value, especially if you can get the updated version (I currently don't know if there is a way to distinguish them). For just a few hundred more than a 256 class thermal, the GRL335 does find that sweet spot on the price/performance ratio. If you're trying to maximize bang for your buck on a thermal optic, you could do a lot worse than the GRL335.

What do you need in a hunting scope?

 Humans have been hunting with rifles for about 500 years now, and iron sights were obviously the only option until the mid 19th century, when the earliest scopes were developed. It took another 100 years for scopes to really enter the mainstream, and many of us (myself included) probably grew up deer hunting with a bolt action .30-06 with a trusty old 3-9x scope on top. That rifle was maybe shot several times to confirm zero before season opener, then shot a few more times at deer if you were lucky. After that, it was maybe cleaned and then back to the safe/closet/case under the bed until next year.

Let's be clear: there's nothing wrong with that setup, and no doubt millions of deer have been shot with such a setup. But, if you're hunting in the mountains, the plains, cut corn fields, etc, then the old 3-9 can leave a little to be desired. I do a hunting rifle video every fall, and for a few years now my go-to has been the suppressed 16" Sig Cross in .308. It's a lightweight rifle, and even with all the stuff I've put on it, it remains fairly manageable. 

The author's go-to hunting rifle setup.

So with a more modern setup, what kind of scope would optimize hunting performance? I would submit that there are a few crucial categories: glass, reticle, durability, and weight. For the glass, you obviously need to be able to see what you're shooting at, whether it's a doe walking under your tree stand or a big buck grazing in the field 300 yards away. If you've done much hunting, you'll know that deer are usually most active at dawn and dusk, when there isn't a whole lot of daylight. Clear glass is extremely beneficial at these times, especially if you're in the woods where it gets dark even quicker.

Hand in hand with the glass comes the reticle. The classic second focal plane duplex has been a favorite for decades because of how easy it is to see at any magnification level. But what if we want to shoot a little further out, thanks to more accurate rifles and laser rangefinders? An FFP reticle is my and many other precision shooters' preference, but pick the wrong one and it can be hard to use the reticle up close for that tree stand shot.

Durability is also important, especially as you head farther out into the backcountry. Walking 10yds from the truck to a box blind will often let you get away with very cheap equipment, but hiking out into the mountains, climbing trees, or busting brush will have much harsher demands. Here too weight becomes a factor, as the saying goes "ounces equal pounds, and pounds equal pain."

Tract Optics was kind enough to send one of their Toric UHD 2.5-15 scopes over for review just before hunting season. I shot two bucks and two does with it, and my brother-in-law also used it to take his first deer as well. Let's take a look and see how the Toric stacks up as a hunting scope using the categories we just discussed, shall we?

One of the 5 deer taken this year with the Toric.

The Tract Toric 2.5-15x44 is a Japanese-made optic with a 30mm tube and 44mm objective. Mine is an FFP with the Eagleman MRAD reticle, and it's a nice graphite gray color. Starting with the glass, the Toric comes out with a bang. The Schott glass is phenomenal, and I was extremely impressed with the image quality. There was no noticeable chromatic aberration (and I used this quite a bit in the snow, where it's pretty obvious if present), and the view was bright and clear. I was able to use this until the very end of hunting hours, something that I can't say for some of the cheaper scopes I've used. In fact, three of the deer taken with this thing were in very low light, right at dusk, and I really couldn't ask for better performance.

As for the reticle, thanks to some good illumination settings I found it to be usable even at low magnification. The illumination was not only good for shooting at last light (as several of the deer were shot with the illumination on), but also was bright enough for a shot at 3 or 4 power in mid-morning on a doe at about 30 yards. It's a simple T-shaped mil reticle with a floating center dot, easy to pick up and very usable. 

Eagleman Reticle at 15x

One of my few minor gripes with this scope is that they don't offer a full tree reticle, as that is my preference, but at the end of the day that's all that is: my preference. I will say that with the advent of LRFs, a tree reticle becomes more handy, as the laser is slaved to your zero. This means that you need to be at zero to get an accurate range, and if you need to take a quick shot in the wind, nothing beats a Christmas Tree mil reticle. But, I know there are plenty of people who find a tree reticle too busy, and I think they'll like this reticle quite a bit.

The glass and reticle combo are great for hunting, not always the easiest combo to pull off in an FFP optic. I've used scopes with an insufficiently bright illumination setting which basically renders the optic unusable on the lower end of magnification, as the reticle just can't be seen. The magnification range too is just about perfect in my book, low enough for close range shots with a wide field of view, and high enough to stretch the legs on these modern setups. If they could add a tree reticle option as well, I think this would make a fantastic SPR/DMR/mid range precision optic.

On the durability front I've also had no issues. Fortunately I haven't dropped it out of a tree stand (yet), but it's covered a number of miles, bounced around in vehicles, and gone up and down a few trees. One of the big features I look for in a hard-use scope is locking turrets, which the Toric fortunately has. Or rather, the elevation turret locks (and has a zero stop), while the windage turret is capped. This is my preference and the ideal setup for a hard use scope, in my opinion. I've never lost zero, and part of that comes down to using a good set of rings/mount; I'm using the excellent RPM Bravo with an integrated bubble level.

Weight is respectable but not portly at 28oz. There are certainly lighter scopes out there, and there are also heavier ones. I like a hunting scope to be under 30oz and wasn't looking for an ultralight setup, so I'm pleased with the Toric. Length is also very normal; I don't see a need for a super short scope on most setups, and there are typically eyebox/usability penalties when you use them.

Toric Spec Sheet

Before we finish we'll also cover the ergonomics and controls, definitely important in a hunting scope but not my main priorities. Eye relief is good at about 4 inches, and I never had an issue getting behind the glass. The magnification dial is probably the smoothest I've ever used and is super easy to manipulate, even without a throw lever.. Parallax is similarly smooth, and the brightness control on it is also good to go (this one goes to 11!).

We already mentioned the locking turrets, which are good but not great. If you're looking for that glass-rod-breaking turret sound/feel, you'll be disappointed. Personally, though, I'm not much of a turret snob and as long as I can feel the clicks (and they accurately move the reticle), I'm not too worried about it. I do wish that the elevation turret was a little bit shorter, as I found that it was blocking the bottom of my Impact 4000. But, unless you're running a top mounted dot or LRF, turret height really doesn't matter.

The Tract Toric poses a great value as well, coming in just under $1100. As we saw, it checks all the boxes that I'm looking for in a hunting scope, with excellent glass, a good magnification range/reticle/illumination, solid durability, and reasonable weight. Tract isn't a super well-known brand (probably at least in part due to their direct-to-consumer business plan), but they are absolutely worth a look. What do you look for in a hunting scope? Comment down below and let me know.

A happy young man with his first deer!

The Most Budget Friendly Range Finding Thermal? Goyojo GRS225RF Review

Female coyote bagged at 40yds with the 225RF.

If a thermal scope is a game changer, then a thermal scope with a rangefinder is doubly so. Anyone who's used a thermal optic knows that it can be very difficult to judge range through one (not that it's exactly easy with a standard scope, either), which is why for many years now nocturnal coyote hunters have favored fast, flat shooting cartridges. The flatter your trajectory, the greater that margin for error you have when taking a shot at an unknown distance. And, of course, using a standard rangefinder at night is difficult if not impossible without using a light source. 

Enter the Goyojo GRS225RF thermal scope, which they were kind enough to send out to me for review. The 225 represents the thermal sensor category (256), while the RF denotes the range finding capability (they do have a non-RF model as well). I believe that the 225RF is one of, if not the cheapest thermal optics out there with a range finding capability, coming in under $800. So is the 225RF the deal of the century, or too good to be true? Read on to find out.

I'll break this review up into sections to delineate certain areas of interest. We'll be looking at performance, features/tech, ergonomics/usability, form factor, and value. After considering all of those, you should be well on your way to determining if the 225RF deserves a place on one of your rifles.

PERFORMANCE

256 is on the low end of the sensor scale in thermal these days, which runs from 144 all the way up to the newly released 1280s. As I said in my review of the DNT Hydra 225, an apt comparison is to relate these to video game consoles. If the 144 is a Playstation 1, then the 1280 is a PS5. The 256 then sits at the level of a PS2, which gives decent if not mind-blowing performance. The 225RF does appear to be a high performing 256 sensor (maybe analogous to a PS2 game released at the end of its lifespan). You can detect thermal signatures from hundreds of yards away, but your ID distance is going to be much shorter. In practical terms, I found that I could spot deer and coyotes from 500+ yards away, but wasn't until 2-300yds that I could accurately determine which was which.

As for the laser rangefinder, Goyojo states that it works out to 1000yds. I never lased anything that far away, but I was able to get accurate readings (verified with my Vortex Impact 4000) at 391yds. Hitting the range finding button on top of the scope pops up a set of green brackets on the optic that serves as the "reticle" for where the ranging laser will hit. Returns were pretty quick and you have the option of continuous ranging if so desired, as opposed to a single hit.

If you are used to using a 384 or 640 sensor thermal (PS3 and PS4 in my anaology, respectively), then you'll definitely notice a step down in graphical performance. Your ID distance won't be as long, and performance will not be as good in humid conditions. But for the first timer,  I think it's more than acceptable. I was IDing coyotes at 250yds+, and shot one at 40yds without issue. For someone looking to get into thermal hunting on a budget, I think it's a great option.

The 225RF has a base optical zoom of 3.5x, with digital zoom from 1-8x. Digital zoom isn't great on any optic, and is worse on lower sensor optics as compared to higher ones, so I use it very sparingly. Durability wise, I haven't done a drop test or anything with the 225RF, but it's held up just fine to going coyote hunting. It also hasn't missed a beat in zero degree weather, even when the optic and screen themselves start to frost up.

To finish this section, we'll touch on battery life. This is an area where I've been very impressed with the 225RF. It has both a built-in battery (charged via a USB-C port on the right side of the optic) and takes an optional backup CR123 where the Parallax adjustment would be on a traditional scope. Goyojo claims over 7hrs of battery life using both, and I believe it. Sitting out in zero degree weather for over two hours, scope running the whole time, I think I lost one "bar" of charge on the built in battery. I think this is excellent performance and it's nice to not have to worry about swapping batteries or carrying an external power pack around.

A very frosty 225RF after over 2hrs in 0 degree weather.

FEATURES/TECH

That particular coyote leads nicely into the discussion of the features of the 225RF. Like most thermal optics, it can record video, use Picture-in-Picture zoom, switch between color palettes and reticle types/colors, etc. All very standard stuff. Unfortunately, the technology side is where the 225RF comes up a little short compared to more expensive options. First, the Recoil Activated Video feature was not very consistent. I'd love to show you footage of me shooting that coyote, which came in fast before I could manually activate the video recording. Instead of capturing the shot, the RAV instead kicked on as I was walking around looking for the yote. So I have a good 10 minutes of footage looking at the ground, and nothing of the actual shot. This RAV activation without shooting has happened several times (and I don't recall this happening with other thermal optics), so I'll probably just shut this feature off.

The 225RF also offers some ballistic solver capabilities, where if you plug in your bullet/rifle data, it should show you where to hold after ranging a target. I say should, because that program is currently not working correctly, which was confirmed after speaking with one of their pro staff members. This is a great tech feature to add to a RF optic, and it's too bad that it's not currently working. Hopefully that can be fixed with an update. 

I've also noticed that there's a noticeable shift in the optic between 1x zoom and 1.1x or above--the reticle appears offset, and then the whole screen shifts when you zoom in. The reticle doesn't actually change position, so you're aiming at the same spot, but it's just an odd thing to see; I keep the reticle at 1.1x so I don't have to worry about it. Also worth mentioning is that the PiP reticle does not align with the primary reticle, but is slightly offset to the right in my case. Both can't be correct at the same time, obviously, and I believe that the primary reticle is the one that's accurate. Another minor annoyance that can hopefully be corrected in an update.

Speaking of updates, that's another area where the 225RF leaves something to be desired. Instead of updating via their app, as many other thermal optics do, you have to manually download an update file (typically from a Google Drive link), plug the scope into a PC, and then drag the update file into the 225RF folder. It's a clunky solution, and it should be noted that your data is wiped during the update, to include your zero, which is pretty annoying. Fortunately, if you write down your X and Y zero settings before updating, you can simply enter them back in; I've found the return to zero using this method to be spot on.

Finally, the app is also very basic. You can see a live view and your videos, but I've had issues where the videos won't play, and couldn't get any of them to download to my phone. You then have to download them to a PC (or a Mac, using a third party program--it won't detect the 225RF otherwise), and even then I've still had issues. To sum it all up, if app and video related features are important to you, you may want to pass on the 225RF for now, at least until these issues are addressed. If you're just using the scope to hunt with and don't care about the videos anyway, then you shouldn't have much of an issue.

ERGOS/USEABILITY

The 225RF has a pretty simple set of controls. Closest to the rear we have three buttons--power, camera activation (tap for photo, hold for video), and laser ranging (tap for ranging, hold to swap between color palettes). The only other control is the "turret" where you would normally control your elevation on a traditional optic. Pressing and holding this brings up your options menu, and you twist the turret to select your options, then press when you've made your choice. One quirk I've noticed is that the menus seem to rotate in opposite direction of what I expect; not a big deal, obviously, just takes some getting used to. All in all I find the 225RF to be pretty simple to control, and I don't have any real complaints.

FORM FACTOR

Unlike many thermal optics, the 225RF has the familiar external form factor of a traditional scope, though it's far different inside. It should be noted that Goyojo is not alone in using this form factor, and that they also do make thermal scopes with a more "standard" setup. This traditional scope form factor comes with some pros and cons, so let's discuss them now.

First for the pros is that you can mount the 225RF like a traditional scope using 30mm rings. This allows more versatility if you have an older platform without a picatinny rail, which the more standard-style thermal optics typically require. Secondly, I could see the more familiar setup perhaps being an aid to someone new to thermal optics--it might be a little easier to get the hang of. Since there's nothing where the windage turret would traditionally be, I found this to be a convenient spot to mount a Sig Romeo 5 on an Arisaka offset RDS mount, giving me a backup and close range optic.

There are some cons to this design, however. I found that the spacing of the 30mm sections are atypical due to the way the housing is shaped, so many of your standard one-piece AR mounts with fixed spacing between the front and rear rings won't fit. Goyojo does supply some high (roughly 1.5") rings with the optic, but while they work, they do appear to be pretty low quality. Don't expect a pair of Seekins, put it that way.

Secondly, unless you use a pair of aftermarket QD rings, you won't have the ability to quickly detach the 225RF to use as a handheld scanner or swap to a daytime optic. I really appreciate that feature on some of my other thermal optics, so it's something to keep in mind if that's important to you. Finally, the whole setup is quite long, similar to a traditional optic, and does require that total amount of space between the rings, so this wouldn't be something you could easily run on some smaller setups. None of these form factor cons are deal breakers by any means, just something to keep in mind.

VALUE

The Goyojo GRS225RF represents a great value for the technical capabilities you're getting. As I mentioned before, I think it's the cheapest rangefinding thermal optic out there, coming in at under $800. You get decent thermal performance, excellent battery life, and the ability to range a target through the optic, making this a great option for someone just getting into thermal optics. However, the technology and app side of things definitely leave something to be desired, and if you're planning to use this to record hunts, you may want to consider other options.

The technological aspects are able to be updated, though, so hopefully they're improved in the future. I'd like to see the ballistic solver fixed, and the optic be able to be updated through the app (along with saving videos). As for the sensor, I think it performs well for a 256, but whether or not that's enough horsepower for your uses is up to you. In sum, I think the 225RF is a good option for those on a budget, and with a few tweaks, it could be great.

If you'd like to pick one up, they were kind enough to give me an affiliate link. You can save 10% using code "forwardassist".

Big raccoon taken at 100yds.

The Perfect SPR Scope?

SPR's seem to be all the rage these days, and for good reason. There's something incredibly satisfying about ringing steel at long range with an AR, especially doing it in rapid succession (which SPRs excel at). Of course, an SPR is only as good as its optic, because you can't hit what you can't see. There's a few considerations most shooters typically want in an SPR scope: reasonable/length weight, good glass, usable magnification range, good reticle, durability, and solid controls. With all those in mind, let's review the Athlon Ares Gen 3 2.5-15 and see how it stacks up.

It should be said that everyone has different ideas of what an SPR is, and how it should perform. For me, it's not a heavy precision rifle that will only be shot from the bench, but a lighter and more mobile "run and gun" type of setup. Whether it's competition, hunting, duty/combat, etc, I don't want an overly hefty rifle if I can help it--I have a bolt gun for that. At the same time, I don't need it to be an ultralight rifle where every ounce is agonized over. I like to keep the optic weight under 30oz if I can for an SPR, which generally limits you to 30mm tubes and 50mm or less objectives.  With a 30mm tube/50mm objective, just under 14" long and just over 27oz, I'd say the Ares is just right in this category. 

Ares BTR Gen. 3 2.5-15x50 specs

The Ares is made in China* with Chinese glass, but I found it to be quite nice. If you haven't been paying attention recently, there's been some really nice glass coming out China--not to the same level as Japanese glass, but not that far behind. There was no significant chromatic aberration to speak of (and I spent some good time shooting this in the snow!), and the image quality was good. The Ares is easy to look through and I really have no complaints about the glass. For a comparison, I would say its probably a little bit above the Vortex Strike Eagle line--and I've shot the Strike Eagle 5-25 out to 1050yds. The 50mm objective lets in plenty of light, perfect for dawn and dusk.

*It appears that Athlon is also making these in Japan now as designated by a "J" at the end of the model number. This adds another $100.

For the magnification range, I'm looking for 1-3x on the low end, and 15-18x on the top end in an SPR scope. 2.5-15 is thus a great range to have in a scope like this, and it makes the Ares extremely effective in the SPR usage window, which is generally out to about 6-700yds in a 5.56 rifle. I got a chance to shoot this out to a little past 400yds, and it definitely excelled there. As for the reticle, I like the APRS13 Mil Reticle quite a bit. This is a first focal plane optic (that's all I shoot, really), and it's got a good "Christmas tree" of wind holds without being excessively busy.  One thing that some people might prefer in an SPR optic would be some kind of a bigger center aiming point, as in their Helos 2-12. The Ares has a very small "floating dot" which is very fine and not for those with aging eyes. Personally, though, I find that I can simply bracket my target inside that open center area, and even if I can't see the floating dot clearly, I know I'm going to get a hit. After all, an SPR generally isn't used for ultra tack-driving precision.

APRS13 FFP Mil Reticle

The only area where I think the Ares falls a little short is in the illumination department. It does have 6 brightness settings with a stop/off in between each, thankfully (a very useful feature for hunting and/or duty use), but even at the brightest setting, it's quite dim. This is clearly only intended for low light scenarios, where it does well. Unfortunately, one of the downsides of an FFP optic is that they can often be difficult to use at low magnification, as the whole reticle obviously shrinks down. One way to combat that is to have a reticle bright enough to be seen in daylight, giving you a way to aim quickly at those close range targets. The Ares does not get bright enough to allow you to do this, so while the field of view at 2.5x is very nice, making a quick snapshot is much more difficult. For this reason, I've been running an offset red dot for short range work.

As for durability, I've got no complaints. I haven't used this thing as a hammer, or anything crazy like that, but it's been in the trunk of my car, banged into other rifles and side door of my safe,  and been slung/carried around without any issue. Of course, an optic is only as good as the mount that its in, and I've been using the extremely nice Audere Levitas from Darn Fine Shot, their exclusive US importer. This is a great SPR combo, as it's got a built-in bubble level in the back of the mount to keep you square for those long range shots. Finally, one of the really nice additions that Athlon includes with these scopes is a pair of threaded scope caps. Made from aluminum, these low profile caps add very little weight and are able to be folded completely back. I really, really like these and I'd love to see more manufacturers take Athlon's lead and include a set of high-quality caps with their high-quality optics.

Control-wise, the Ares is pretty standard. The magnification dial is smooth, and with the included removable stud it's a breeze to rotate. You've got an adjustable eyepiece and elevation, windage, and parallax turrets in the usual places. Turrets are you typical .1 mil per click (10 mils per revolution) and are nice and tactile; it feels good to dial on this thing. You've also got an optional zero stop on the elevation turret, which I consider the bare minimum for a scope that might be getting knocked around, as an SPR scope often is. There's even a revolution counter for those times when you're really dialing the scope for an extreme shot, which is especially handy for rimfire shooters exploring the limits of .22lr.

Unfortunately, the Ares does not have locking turrets, nor a capped windage turret. I know some people might disqualify the Ares completely as an SPR scope for these reasons, and it's too bad that Athlon didn't make that design choice. Myself and most people I know only dial elevation if we're going to dial anything, and hold for wind. This makes a windage turret superfluous other than for zeroing purposes, and a capped windage turret is a great way to gain some zero security. I think Vortex made the right call by capping theirs on the Strike Eagle 3-18, and in the future I'd like to see Athlon either make both turrets lock, or do a locking elevation and capped windage.

Street price on the Ares is in the $6-700 range, and I think you're getting a lot of scope for the money. Athlon is a brand that I know to offer exceptional value for the price, and the Ares is no exception. If they could add locking/capped turrets and bump up the brightness, then I think the Ares 2.5-15 would be the hands-down choice for an SPR scope under $800. As it sits, I think it's still an excellent optic and I don't plan to take it off my SPR any time soon.

Multi Optic Setups

 

All kinds of optics! This setup was just for laughs, 
you don't need two red dots AND a prism sight.

Spend just 5 minutes scrolling through gun content on Instagram (Gunstagram?) and you'll probably see a bunch of rifles with a ton of accessories, including several different optics. But is running multiple aiming systems just a fad for internet points, or is there an actual reason? Let's take a minute to explore that and see if it's something you actually need.

Multi Optic systems can be broken down into a few different categories. For today, we'll just be talking about passive aiming systems, ie scopes, red dots, etc, and not considering lasers. Those certainly are aiming systems, but they're generally more niche and designed for night vision usage, so we'll omit them for the sake of brevity. The general classifications we can break these multi optics systems up into is Backups, Extra Magnification, Close Range, and NV Aiming. There are definitely some blurred lines/carryover between these categories, for what it's worth. Finally, this is primarily a discussion about rifle systems, specifically the AR, but obviously these concepts are not exclusive to Stoner's platform. Let's dive in.

Multiple optic systems have been around as long as optics have existed, generally in the Backup category. In the AR world, we first saw optics come into widespread usage in the 90s within the special operations community. Black Hawk Down is a great example, with the famous "Gordon Carbine" sporting a carry handle mounted Aimpoint, with the iron sights able to be used thanks to a pass-through hole in the mount. Another classic would be the iconic Mk18 Mod0 with an Aimpoint Comp M2 at absolute- or lower-1/3rd height and fixed iron sights, often times a cut down carry handle.

MK18 Mod0 with an Aimpoint Comp M 
at Lower 1/3rd height, and a hacked off
carry handle fixed rear sight.

Nowadays, the most common way to do backup sights is to have a set of flip-up irons on the rifle, the Magpul MBUS probably being the most common. Out of the way when you don't need them, and able to be popped up in a second, they're a great way to add redundancy to a rifle--especially one that you might have to trust your life to, like a duty or home defense rifle. With the advent of higher mounted optics, though, standard flip-up irons may not be able to be cowitnessed through your primary red dot. Or, in the case of a scope, you can't use irons through them anyway. A solution to that would be a set of offset iron sights, Magpul again making a great set.

Probably the next most common setup would be a multiple optic configuration set up for added magnification. With a red dot sight as your primary optic, making shots on smaller targets and/or at extended ranges can be tough. Using a flip-to-side magnifier is a great way to to add magnification when you need it, while still retaining all the advantages of a red dot when you don't.  Many of these are on QD mounts as well, meaning that they can easily be popped off the rifle to save weight, or be used as a standalone monocular.

PSA Sabre with MBUS Gen 3s and PA 3x magnifier.

The Primary Arms Micro 3x Magnifier with the Pegasus reticle is a great example of a magnifier that punches above its weight class. The reticle is out of the way at the bottom, and lets you do some auto-ranging if you're trying to make shots on a standard sized target at unknown distances. Another recent and very interesting development is the offset prism sight mount, like the Staker Precison. It can be used with ACOGs as well as other optics using the same footprint, like the Primary Arms Micro 3x prism. It's designed to let you use your red dot as a primary optic, but gives you the option to make a more precise shot at extended ranges, using the reticle of whatever prism sight you choose. It may not be for everybody, but I think it's a great concept.

Staker Precision Offset ACOG mount
with a Primary Arms Micro 3x.

The Close Range multi optic setup is just the opposite. Your primary optic is some kind of magnified scope, generally without a 1x bottom setting in these cases. In order to make those close range shots quickly, you add an offset or top mounted red dot sight. There's a number of great standalone offset red dot mounts, such as Arisaka, Athena Precision, ADM, etc. A standalone offset can be added to just about any AR setup, and with a number of great budget red dots out there (Holosun, Sig, Vortex, etc), doesn't have to break the bank. While many offset mounts are at a fixed angle, Arisaka offers two mounting angles (35 and 45), and the Athena is able to articulate to get you exactly the angle you need. Be sure to pick a mount that keeps the optic in line with the bore (as the ones mentioned do), or else your trajectory will get wonky at extended ranges.

Romeo 5 (tan) on an Arisaka Offset mount.

Of course, depending on what optic and mount you're using, you could also add the offset red dot directly to your scope mount. Reptilia, Scalarworks, Badger, and Geissele are just a few companies that offer that option. One thing to keep in mind is that it's generally easiest to have the offset optic at the same height as your primary optic, making it a quick roll over to your secondary without having to move your head around. The standalone options generally come in at the standard 1.5" height, though Arisaka does offer a 1.93 option. With the modular mount systems, they are setup to put it exactly at the same height, making things very easy.

509T on the Scalarworks add-on offset
mount, putting both optics at 1.93".

Finally, we come to the Night Vision multi optic system. As I noted before, these categories overlap, and an NV red dot can obviously be used for close range targets and/or as a backup sight.  NV dots are used in conjunction with some sort of magnified optic, whether a prism, LPVO, or higher magnification scope. Generally speaking, NV dots are placed at the 12 o'clock position, making them easier to acquire without knocking your NV into your scope. Because night vision can't really see through a traditional scope, the NV dot allows you to passively aim (ie aim without shooting a laser) and shoot in the dark. It's worth noting that optics with large/tall turrets (looking at you, Arken) may not be able to go this route, as the turret may block the dot. This same caveat can also apply to offset dots, where the dot may be blocked by the windage turret.

Probably the easiest way to add an NV dot to a scope is to pick a modular optic mount that has it as an option. Primary Arms, Reptilia, Geissele, Badger, Warne, and more companies all offer this feature. There are also companies that offer aftermarket dot options to mounts that didn't have them (or certain footprints), like Baldknobber Armament and Koeng Co. Keep in mind that your height over bore starts to get very high; for this reason, I prefer to keep my 12 o'clock dots limited to mounts 1.7" and lower. There are also standalone "clamp" type options, where the red dot is mounted to a ring that's then attached to the optic. Trijicon offers one such mount, and one of the benefits is that it can be adjusted to any angle you'd like, if the 12 o'clock position is too high or blocked by your turrets.

507C (with DT Wrks ARD) on a Reptilia 1.7" mount with RMR top ring.

When it comes to prism scopes, the classic is the RMR mounted on top of an ACOG; many ACOGs like the TA11, TA31, etc. come with threaded holes in the optic for the mount to be added. Some prisms, like the Vortex 5x Spitfire, have a mounting footprint machined into the top (Venom/Viper in the Vortex's case). Others, like some of the older Primary Arms models, have a picatinny rail built in to the top to allow easy mounting of a red dot of your choosing. Primary Arms came out with an offset mount add-on for the Micro Prism line, as well as a 12 o'clock mount. The offset mount worked fine, but the 12 o'clock mount was very flimsy and clearly would not hold zero. Fortunately, a company called Fotonika stepped up to the plate and came out with a quality mount for the 1/3x and 5x Micro prisms. It offers a variety of footprints so it fits most red dots on the market.  

PA Micro 3x in a Fotonika Mount with EFLX on top.

Clearly, there are some valid reasons to have multiple optics on a rifle. If you've got a basic range rifle with a decent LPVO, there's probably no need to spend the extra money to add another optic. But, if you're relying on a rifle for duty use, want to shoot at night, or need a close range aiming solution, then maybe a multi optic system is right for you. As with all gear and setup considerations, I highly recommend that you get out and use your rifle "in the real world" to figure out what you need. Shoot competitions, hunt, take a class, etc. You'll find that when you put your equipment through a real test, any changes, upgrades, or deletions will become obvious very quickly. Trust me, I've been there!

Primary Arms red dot on an Athena
Precision fully adjustable offset mount.